Forced Continuity and Free Trials Are Almost Over! READ THIS NOW!

Watch this video to get the latest news of the official death of forced continuity.

Here’s the email I received from one of my merchant account providers. This is serious business..

-(name withheld) wants to inform everyone of changes expected from the Payment Brands regarding practices that are considered “Brand Damaging”. As you may be aware, both Visa and MasterCard are taking action in response to increases in consumer disputes related to card-not-present and direct response products and services. (name withheld) is endorsing the adoption of Best Practices to support our merchant base in conducting business in a manner that protects both businesses and consumers from fraud. To date no formal announcement has been received, however (name withheld) is issuing this communication now in an effort to educate and assist our agents/merchants in complying with anticipated Payment Brand mandates and actions.

MasterCard has recently warned the Acquiring community that “Negative Option” enrollment will be considered a “Brand Damaging” business practice. “Brand Damaging” is a very broad term and is still being defined, but in light of recent fines to our counterparts, we must be proactive. Indications are that MasterCard will require immediate termination of merchants identified as using this business practice, along with any other practices considered “Brand Damaging”. This follows recent policy changes from Visa regarding descriptor formats and disclosure of corporate entities related to Direct Response offers, with the intent to enforce all chargeback and transaction monitoring programs as defined by the associations.

(name withheld) cannot accept merchant applications for products and/or services employing “Negative Option” enrollment, in addition to the following practices:

Marketing models that employ “Free-Trial”, “Deferred Billing” and/or “Shipping Only”. Customers must be receiving a tangible good or contracted service in exchange for charging of payment cards. Incentivized discount offers are acceptable when the cardholder is receiving something in exchange for payment, however we will be unable to support accounts engaging in hidden or delayed charges and ‘free’ offers that are not truly free.

“Cross-Selling” and “Up-selling” business practices. All sales should be directly between the business entities (merchant) processing the transaction and the cardholder, with cardholder authorization for all purchases.

Per Payment Brand guidelines, the use of multiple merchant accounts, billing descriptors and merchant processors may be viewed as an attempt to avoid chargeback monitoring programs and is prohibited. Perceived non-compliance has led to termination of processing relationships. (name withheld) will review the business consideration for opening multiple merchant accounts to ensure compliance with Payment Brand guidelines.

Transactions generated from internet traffic and all other lead sources must be managed and monitored for potential fraud using an approved system. Third Party service engagement may be a requirement for account approval.

The FTC has recently published guidelines regarding “Negative Option” enrollment programs and is taking a very aggressive position against merchants utilizing/employing this business practice. Recommendations take in part from the FTC’s website may include but are not limited to the following:

Material terms should be disclosed in a clear, concise manner. Unnecessarily long or inconsistent terms are viewed as an attempt to mislead the consumer.

Terms should be disclosed in a conspicuous manner, clearly placed and labeled on websites in a location that indicates the importance and relevance to the transaction. Fonts and colors must be easy to view.

Material terms must be disclosed prior to completion of the transaction and before a financial obligation is incurred by the consumer.

Customers must provide affirmative consent to any offer, examples include a mandatory “I Agree…” statement checkbox, where the customer is acknowledging the Terms and Conditions of the offer and consents to be entered into continuity program as a result of completing the transaction. Pre-checked boxes do not qualify as affirmative consent.

Merchants must not discourage or make difficult in any way the disclosed cancellation procedures and all cancellation requests must be honored in accordance with the stated terms of the transaction.

**END OF LETTER**

Please let me know your thoughts here…

  • I'm happy to hear this, actually. as one who has purchased from many well-known marketers, I'm always amazed at how they get around fully disclosing everything until the payment page is shown. This is a dishonest and misleading practice, as far as I'm concerned, and its about time the powers that be are taking action to get this stopped. It might not be so bad if it was made easier to cancel. say, by a simple phone call, but, as you know, most forced continuity program creators, make it quite a bit harder to cancel before the trial period has ended.
  • I have used Ryan's products, kept some, cancelled some. I knew exactly what I was getting when I signed up and when I wanted to stop, I knew what to do, because he told me and then I acted accordingly. Even Pete Shankman said that Ryan is "completely transparent" in his marketing.

    And even though I have never met Ryan, I know him, to a certain extend, and I trust him. That's why I am always interested in his products and in being a part of them.

    I said all that to say, if Ryan, the King of Continuity, can be this way, why can't others? So this information is vital to our knowledge base, but it isn't anything outside of what Ryan has been saying for as long as I have known about him and that has been a few years. Yes, it will hurt in some ways, but hopefully, it will make things a little better for the consumer so that they can trust us and buy from us and feel good about what they are buying so they buy more. Isn't that why we have continuity programs?
  • Mind Boggling! Thanks Ryan.
  • TomMakesMarketing
    Here is an example for discussion - Would Frank Kern's recent offer of teaching "Free" Traffic Getting and List Building content come under scrutiny with Visa and MC because to get this "Free" training you have to pay $297 per month to be part of the Mass Control Membership to get it? In this particular example Frank (in a video) says you will get the List and traffic building stuff for free when you sign-up for his new monthly Mass Control Membership program that cost what you would normally pay for lunch on a daily basis which he then states is just $9.97 per day. He does not tell you it is $297 per month - instead it is just $9.97 a day. And he clearly spells it out in the video with is about 9 minutes long that you can easily cancel and keep the free List Building and Traffic Getting stuff if you do. It is all Mass Control stuff and I personally love watching Frank practice it. So the question is when is Free really Free then because you have to buy something initially to get it "Free". This is not Frank or others who do this trying to be deceptive but I think it is questionable as to how long we will be able to continue with offers like this.

    I know this is a bit of a different arguement compared to the forced continuity stuff but I think this is probably next on the list of things that could be considered questionable by MC, Visa, and other merchant account providers as well as the FTC down the road here.

    Now I personally love Franks stuff and clearly understand what he is doing here by using mass control techniques. And I will be getting the MCM program myself. But someone not familiar with that (especially a newbie), could claim Free is not really Free in this case. You can see the video at Franks Blog...

    What do you guys think?
  • Phil Powdrill
    Thanks for sharing this Ryan.

    Personally I agree that this is good news. It encourages transparency and it's all part of the evolution of our industry.Always felt that forced continuity was a bit of a shady practice.

    Phil
  • davidbaer
    Work at home jobs can be hard to trust. That's why we research and publish only the best of the best... carefully pre-screened, 100% scam-free work at home jobs you can depend on. No get rich quick schemes. No scams. Just 100% real work at home jobs

    www.onlineuniversalwork.com



  • TheBrainTeacher
    I disagree Ryan... Forced continuity is alive and well! Yet this example has an amazing twist...

    It hijacks you AWAY from the free offer (that's $9.95 AFTER you've given your name and email) and the continuity program you were expecting then dumps you into a way more expensive program AFTER you provided you name and email. This isn't OTO is 'BOTH' Brunson's One Time Hijack!

    DON'T enter you email here - > http://www.im-myth.com/ as I did!
    Go straight through - > http://www.im-myth.com/welcome.html
    Then click the button for your freebie! NOT!

    This is both unethical AND is illegal in Australia where it's called bait and switch.

    http://www.im-myth.com/ should be the poster example of the WORST kind of forced continuity out there today...

    (No nothing above is an affiliate link)

    I'm wondering if you'll delete this post as you and Russell are cross-promoting like crazy...

    Tell me it isn't so!!! Will the last ethical marketer please turn the lights out?
  • MarieDi
    For a while now, I've stopped entering into any free trial offers with continuity payment UNLESS they were processed through Paypal. The reason is simple: with Paypal, I'M THE ONE DECIDING when I cancel the subscription, and it IS as simple as the click of a button.

    As for Mike Filsaime, it is to be noticed that he has started again to add Paypal payments on his offers. I don't always like Mike's ways in terms of selling (especially his last big launch with sales copy that was a bit too misleading for my personal taste) but I've never had ANY trouble cancelling any payment with his company and I've never heard anyone complaint about that in his case. I think it's important to go around, mingle, observe, and then decide who you give your credit card number to.

    In the last few months, there have been many very enticing offers that I wanted to try but didn't because there was NO Paypal payment option. In view of the Visa/MasterCard decision, I guess my hunch was right :-)
  • blago
    I think this is definitely a good thing, there are too many of these FC Websites and it is about time that someone took a stand to protect the consumer.
  • Ryan,

    Great info.

    Thanks for the info.

    Amazaing content.

    Rick Kaselj
    www.ExercisesForInjuries.com

    .
  • King,

    Thanks so much, great info.

    Rick Kaselj
    www.ExercisesForInjuries.com
    .
  • TimSeitz
    You can do continuity, but now you have to be VERY HONEST, and make MORE CONTACT with your members. My name is Tim Seitz, and I have been in Merchant Services for 5 years, and I know how to keep companies processing, and never on the TMF File (Terminated Merchant File or This Merchant is F*d) by knowing what the processors and the banks want to see and what they never want to see. There are other rules that are confusing and misleading, but if you understand the concepts behind them, you can process without incident and without high reserves.
  • Guest
    SKIP THIS IT'S SPIRITUAL NOT BUSINESS - C4K is born LIVE!

    Here's my confession...

    I work full-time in insurance. However I was like you, dreaming of $millions as a result of what I was learning from Ryan Lee, Russell Brunson, Eric Graham, Mike Filsaime, Chris Zavadowski, Jim (the man in the loud red shirts) Edwards and also many others who I have been a (paying) customer.

    I wasn't intending on attending Ryan's upcoming summit, yet I'll take out a loan on my credit card to attend to help save continuity!

    I've created a new number system called Australian Numerals. It's simply easier and way more fun that the Arabic Numerals you use at the moment. I expect Trademarks and copyright to be sorted by April and I've created an Australian Numerals Font that means every computer on the planet can start the process of upgrading the way we do math.

    Continuity is meant to be about niches, yet what was to be MY continuity program that I've worked on for more than TWO DECADES has a market of more than 6 billion people.

    So my challenge to YOU reading this right now...?

    I want you to promote the world's BIGGEST INNOVATION since the year 522 when the zero was created.

    ...And I want all proceeds (EVERY CENT!) to go towards global NGO's direct such as world vision, the red cross and so on.

    There will be a free DVD worth $97 that people can get for shipping with an opt-in continuity at $7 month with the $7 going to a charity of the members' choice. This may also make this the 1st continuity program that's tax deductible for all.

    So why am i amnnouncing here on Ryan's blog that I'm prepared to forego BILLIONS of dollars in licensing, royalties, sales etc by converting my Australian Numerals into the world's 1st 'Careware Continuity Program'?

    1) I smashed my spine and made a deal with God that if I could walk again and have kids I'd do something to make the world a better place.

    2) Our daughter died at birth and I made a pledge that I'd raise $1 million to for charity. (Only about $100k to date)

    3) I've stressed out to the max over an easy software program that was meant to be my online saviour being launched with a bug. (So my videos no longer work...)

    4) Work has been a #@^&!# place recently.

    5) Haiti

    ======
    So I'm seriously weighing up resigning my executive top dollar job and free-falling into the future.

    Are there people reading this who'd be prepared to email their list about this continuity program called
    continuityforkids.org as of 60 seconds ago when I registered it? (live brainstorming!!!)

    ===========

    So what's in it for this that participate? Lots. Children will continue...

    What legacy will YOU leave behind? This will become a BAND-AID moment... Remember the Boomtown Rats singer? No? Remember Sir Bob Geldof???

    I'm not after charity. I'm after a hand-up! I've received many letters from world leaders and Nobel Laureates before and I'll write to them and get them to endorse this continuity program!

    How's that for going to the top! And in case you think this is all just hot air goto
    http://worldmessageday.com/wmd/

    Just 12 extra people need clean water and quality calories each day and preventable starvation can we wiped in in less than 6 years.

    So are marketers noble? Are you! I subscribe to a MASSIVE number of gurus and only 1 has done something for Haiti - Jeff Johnson. YOU are special. You got flak promoting
    http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/impact/ only because you tracked the cliks... **sigh**

    Where are the Christian/spiritual gurus? I know one hair transplanted ex car salesman guru will email me 10 times in the next 3 days... Anything REAL about TRULY making a difference?

    Or are we all about the money!

    Let's make this the moment where continuity enters the business strategy marketing case books.

    Yet more importantly- I've upped my goal to raising $1 billion for charity. (Only Chris Zavadowski and Design Guru Ryan) knew this til now.

    Important info.

    Prelaunch site
    http://the101010code.com
    Launch date 10-10-10

    Testimonial site (60+ countries to date)
    http://autraliannumerals.org/

    All people who I meet in the USA at Ryan's event who agrees to email their list about C4K will get a personally signed DVD from me at the SAME time I mail them out to world leaders.

    I'll also promote you in a 'Hall-of-fame' is being bold enough to stand up and lead the online world in bringing about positive change the will echo for eternity!

    So if you've read this far, check me out. Click the links above...

    ContinuityForKids has just launched!

    Thanx Ryan for the platform. I can't think of anyone more trusting or connected to help spread this idea...

    Jonathan
  • Gareth C Thomas
    Why deliver on DVD and charge us postage? Not necessary. Just upload it and allow us immediate access so that we can download it. Aren't you doing just what the "gurus"are guilty of? Get the DVD, free, just pay postage etc. The last DVD I bought and paid postage was just the sales letter on the DVD. Did I feel cheated? Heck yeah. I got the self same information (sales letter!) from the video on the internet.

    So if you believe we should all know about Australian Numerals and your techniques, give us access to enough information to allow us to make an informed decision about whether or not we want to buy the course etc.
  • Guest
    Hi Gareth,

    I'll be making the DVD available as BOTH a download and a free DVD with shipping. The ongoing continuity 4 kids lessons will also be opt-in so people will be able to decide how and when they may get my lessons.

    The reason for the physical DVD option is many countries are still on very slow internet connections and having students parents and teachers downloading 3GB video files in developing countries is simply not practical.

    Jonathan
    P.S. I'm sorry you got ripped off by your last experience. I believe most of Ryan's clients would provide better value than that!
    You can see how I've re-jigged my current site ahead of launching Australian Numerals. My goal is to crack the 80 percent opt-in barrier so the 'forced' continuity aspect becomes irrelevant to my C4K goals. My Conversion Optimisation 'Case Study' >> http://thebrainteacher.com
  • Gareth
    Hi Jonathan,

    You replied "The reason for the physical DVD option is many countries are still on very slow internet connections and having students parents and teachers downloading 3GB video files in developing countries is simply not practical."

    Fair enough. Now I see why you need a shipping paid for option too... makes sense. I forget not everyone has broadband even today!! At least people won't have the same issue I had :o)

    Gareth

  • Robyn
    Not a chance I'd touch this with a 10 foot pole. Biggest crock of bull I've ever read. Children will continue without you. You created a new number system why? Change the way we do math why? You couldn't create a software program without a bug, but think you can create a new number system and change the way we do math? Take out a credit card loan to go to a conference? Quit your high paying job? Not one cent goes into your pocket? Free falling into the future? More likely you'll be free falling into the gutter.

    First line said it best SKIP THIS, sorry I didn't.
  • Guest
    Hi Robyn. Thank you for sharing your thoughts... I didn't create the software. It came with a bug, and I've been changing servers...

    Anyway, I may well fall into the gutter as you say. Yet maybe that's not a bad thing from time to time. Maybe you might consider watching this short mystery video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRduoTlDgbE

    Some children will continue for sure, yet not as many as I'd wish. That's why I'm a child sponsor as many others will be reading this.

    Of course until I prove myself, you'd be right for being sceptical! It's natural and to be expected. Yet sometimes people CAN be taken at their word.

    Jonathan



  • Thank you so much for posting this. I have had so many bad experiences (and lost money) over small print forced continuities. Big names have been involved and unsubscribing can be a nightmare. I am soooo looking forward to a return of honest marketing!
  • Anne
    Thanks for the information, Ryan. It is tiresome to have to read every last bit of small print to see what an offer really consists of. Transparency helps the customer - and a happy customer will come back. One who is stung with charges they didn't see coming or forgot about is not a happy customer. This is not bad news, but it is good to know about it. Thanks again.
  • Thanks for the info. Very important for all of us. I can't tell you how many times I have had to opt out of something that was not made clear in the beginning. This new ruling will save us all a lot of trouble. I believe customers should always be crystal clear on what they are purchasing and it's up to us sellers to make it abundantly clear.
  • col323
    Thanks Ryan;
    I've been working on my continuity program for the last 5 months, and this is damaging news.
    I like the idea of using the "I Agree Statement" to make it a voluntary thing.
    I'll keep watching your blog to stay up on the news.
  • While all the free trial and forced continuity discussion is important, I do notice one thing in that letter that isn't being talked about...
    Per Payment Brand guidelines, the use of multiple merchant accounts, billing descriptors and merchant processors may be viewed as an attempt to avoid chargeback monitoring programs and is prohibited. Perceived non-compliance has led to termination of processing relationships.


    Am I reading this correctly?

    Does this mean that if we want to offer Paypal as a payment option, it has to be the only payment option because we can't offer it as an alternative to using our merchant account?
  • D.I. Hartman
    No, this is about using multiple processors or multiple MIDs (Merchant Identification) in order to keep your chargeback ratio under 1%. What these guys do is use a CRM that allows multiple load balancing... they can specify the percentage of orders going into each MID. So if their chargebacks on one MID is close to 1%, they can stop orders going into that one, and use another one. Because the chargebacks are under the 1% ratio, they get to keep their accounts.

    It has nothing to do with using Paypal plus a merchant account.
  • Sid
    It's the "Unnecessarily long or inconsistent terms are viewed as an attempt to mislead the consumer." that makes me wonder what that will be--any word over 7 characters long, for instance?
    as it was released that the average reading abililty of the Wall Street Journal Readers (usually, one would think a fairly educated group) is 8th grade American (among the lowest standard of education now in 1st world countries due to the aggressive dismantling of the education system starting with Reagan\Bush policies in the 80's..). And that's frightening in this country that is so powerful still in various means at its disposal..
    I think that, although there are relevant points in the reasoning, the real solution is getting people educated enough again to be able to read and understand what they're reading and back in the habit of making informed decisions about their lives on every level, hard if not able to take in, recognize the information in our lives, much less be at ease enough to assume the right and duty to interpret, challenge or use that information.
    What do you think will be the alternative, or what will be created to fill in the gap, as continuity programs are a major staple of IM?
    Oops, continuity, 10 letters, too long to print...
  • Charles
    Forced Continuity RIP. Hope you are gone forever. Yes, I have been sucked in to a number of these abominable schemes. I believe continuity programs in general are dishonest and forced continuity programs are criminal. Do you really believe that #1 ranked Guru who has made untold millions in the last 5 years can come up with golden words every month that are worth $47, $97, $197, $497 or $997 month after month? Write me in a year and let me know if you still believe it was worth it.

    Then there is the long sales letter. Ten years age I actually read a lot of them from beginning to end. Now, more likely I might read the first 2 or 3 paragraphs and drop to the end to see how much it costs and then delete it. Don't you think we get tired of the same old formula: 1. A few paragraphs of introduction. 2. Truck loads of "El Toro Ca Ca". 3. The run down. 4. The close "But wait". Echos of Billy Mayes. At least he was selling a real product, even if it might be of questionable value.

    An finally, #2 Guru comes out with his new "Better then Buttered Toast" program and low and behold within the next 2 or 3 days you get 10 or more emails from various characters promoting, you guessed it, #2 Guru's new "Better then Buttered Toast" program. Which leads you to want to unsubscribe from a bunch of lists, but after clicking the unsubscribe link, you are presented with the message "We cannot unsubscribe you because you do not have Java and Javascript enabled." Oh, but yes I do. When will it ever end?
  • Kary
    From the sounds of things were on the same lists. LOL If you make the mistake of buying their book and check the properties, you discovered that it was written 2 or more years ago. The book probably wasn't even written by the seller to begin with, just some old PLR junk they downloaded free of charge, put a new cover on it, change the title, add their name and their $97.00 richer. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me! I'm not playing the fool for anyone, I'd rather flush the money down the toilet then give it to some who thinks I'm foolish enough to get suckered in twice.

    I no longer even bother to attempt to unsubscribe from lists, I just block their email addresses now. Less stress, less wasted time, and less email crap. (I Broke My Shovel Digging Myself Out.) LOL

    Oh, and I love the ones that try to use scare tactics on you! I had one (Choke) Guru that was attempting to get me to attend a conference. I nicely told him I couldn't. He then send me another email questioning my sanity and telling me I would never be successful because I wasn't attending this conference. I emailed him back explaining that I was Canadian undergoing radiation treatment and couldn't get travel insurance and I wasn't going to put my life at risk to attend a conference where I had no medical coverage. (Banging Head Against Wall) Then I get another email from Bruce Wayne aka Batman aka Conference (Gag) Guru, the next one - Riddle me this... Okay if you want to play games I'll play. If your Batman than I must be SuperGirl! I sent him a long email singing the song (I'm the life of the party, so contagious, all the boys want to get me, but I'm just playing...) I sent him one email after another questioning his intelligence and how desperate he must be to keep emailing me time, after time to get someone to attend the conference. Unfortunately for him, I fractured my back and I'm stuck in bed leaving me lots of free time to mess with his head. For some unknown reason I don't think he appreciated me making fun of him and his overblown ego, he removed me from his list. Guess, he didn't want to play with me after all. ROFL

    If you want to dish it out, you got to be able to take it, obviously this guy couldn't. (Muffles Laughter) I admit I'm opinionated and speak my mind, but I'm also willing to listen to what others have to say. Sometimes they do change my opinion, but when they don't we can agree to disagree and there's no hard feelings.

    Sorry, I know this is really off topic, but I thought I share how to get unsubscribed from a list that won't let you - Bombard them with emails and turn the table on them, their ego's can't take it.



  • Kary
    I can relate to why VISA & MasterCard are implementing these changes, it will save them a lot of time, money and staffing costs.

    When I first started on the Internet I was involved in this course that had all these *FREE* offers, but they weren't exactly *FREE*. Being a Newbie, I had no idea what a landing page was or that I was being re-directed to another company. I was under the impression I was still on the site I was taking the course from and as such these offers were *FREE* since I was taking the course. Even when I submitted my credit card number, I was still under the belief this was just a formality and no payments would be charged because I'd already paid for the course and they did state it was *FREE*.

    All these companies had pre-checked boxes and when I did read their Terms & Conditions they were written in a manner that could be interpreted in varies ways, not clear & concise. They were written by a lawyer in legalize, thus unless you had a law degree or paid a lawyer to read them it was easy to misconstrue what they actually meant. IMHO, I believe they intentionally wrote them as such in order to have people sign up and place the blame on them for not reading the Terms & Conditions.

    It wasn't until my credit card was being billed left, right and center, I realized these offers were NOT FREE!!! One of the offers I received via email was from a totally different company, but used the course I was taking as their signature line and address at the bottom of the email. (How Desperate & Confusing Is That??? *Shakes Head*)

    I'm Canadian and our business laws are different, but not to the extend that a properly written T&C would create such confusion. Oh, and when I did attempt to have them canceled the charges, they couldn't locate my account, apparently only my credit card had an account with them. *Rolls Eyes*

    After a few months of emailing them and getting nowhere, I got my lawyer involved. He read over the T&C's and informed me it was a classic case of CYA (Cover Your A**). It took over 3 months, dealing with my credit card company, the company that was applying charges to my credit card, and my lawyer threatening to have fraud charges brought against them that they eventually refunded my money.

    Fortunately, my lawyer is also a good friend so there were no fees I had to pay, but most people aren't as lucky as I am and would, which can end up being extremely expensive. Regrettably, the lawyer fees are usually higher than what the payments were, so they still lose out.

    So basically, my thoughts on this subject - I support 100% what VISA & MasterCard are doing to prevent this from happening. This will not only help prevent IM scams, but also impedes the so called "Guru's" who take advantage of people starting out and don't know what they're getting into until it's too late. If they can't be honest and upfront with people in their marketing tactics, they shouldn't be allowed to have a Forced Continuity Program unless they follow the rules. If they can't make a living on-line with their Forced Continuity Program(s) due to these new rules, they're obviously not competent in their marketing practices and have to resort to any method possible to make money. Again IMHO, this puts them on the same level as IM scammer's and makes it more difficult on people that do deal with their customer's based on their honesty and integrity.

    Thanks for the information Ryan, sorry if this sounds more like a vent, but I wanted to explain what I based my opinion on. (Been There, Done That, Not Going To Happen Again!!!)



  • aaron
    The only reason this is happening (if it really is happening):

    Scammy CPA products in the fields of biz opps and supplements (acai, colon cleanse)

    They have the amazing combination of:
    1. Shitty product
    2. Undisclosed, hidden and overpriced forced continuity
    3. No customer service

    My questions:
    I still see those scammy offers running and accepting visa/mastercard so I wonder if what Ryan says is viable info.

    Will free trials still be something acceptable by visa/mastercard, no forced continuity.
  • Name
    Aaron - this just happened within the last 2-3 days. Mastercard and Visa have a lot of accounts to look through, chances are you won't see offers get shut down for a little while. Also keep in mind that these scammy companies usually cover their bases well in terms of preventing themselves from getting shut down etc.
  • Alan
    Thanks for this news, it's long overdue. And thanks to Andy Jenkins for forwarding it. I have been disgusted at the behaviour of "MOST" internet marketers in their customer service areas, and can name only about 6 who respond decently as vendors would in any other businesses. I just today discontinued a well-regarded "Forced Continuity" $97/month program and was told after some jostling that "Cancellations take about 72 work hours". That translates as 9 business days, which sounds to me like two weeks!! That probably means they want to hit my Visa card for another $97 in 6 days on the anniversary.
    Thanks for the good work.
  • boblewis
    Hallelujah! About time this despicable practice was stopped. Mike Filsaime and others have been crowing about forced and micro-continuity for ages and it was bound to end in tears. At best it should always have been considered a "sharp" practice at worst "highly unethical" and "illegal".

    Maybe NOW we'll get some decent ethics and marketing being shown by many of the so-called gurus who have been taking obscene advantage of too many ordinary folk who have all too often not really understood what they were buying into and if they did found it difficult to stop the process.

    If it's bought with one button on the web, then it should be stoppable by just one button on the web and not some convoluted process that ensures the purchaser has to jump through hoops to even figure out HOW to stop payments, never mind actually achieve them.

    Bottom line here is: If you offer a FREE trial then do just that. If it's for a continuing service then let the quality and delivery of that service during the trial stand as the incentive to continue with it. My view has always been that ANY service that attempts to promote forced continuity is suspect in quality somewhere, and the service provider more interested in your money than your business.

    People should always have viewed suspiciously anyone using forced continuity in the past; maybe they'll be a little better protected from that now.

    This looks like the second big hit from the FTC that SHOULD have been anticipated much sooner from so-called gurus but wasn't. What price "guru" status now? Where are they REALLY trying to lead people?

    For almost 16 years, 10 of them in corporate sales, I worked for the second largest computer company on the planet (then), built over 30-plus years by a man with the most impeccable ethics of anyone I've met - Ken Olsen founder of DEC. His take on this was pretty much the same as my father's, who spent his entire working life in sales and his father before him who also spent his entire life in selling ...

    "So long as you don't sell the company down the river, always do what's right by the customer!". The pragmatic and slightly better balanced version of "The customer's ALWAYS right"

    It's ironic that almost as soon as he was forced off the board the strong ethical feel of the company disappeared and not long afterwards so did the company.

    Forced continuity has NEVER been right by the customer and never should it be. I for one am glad the FTC is grabbing this one by the horns
  • barried
    Thanks for your information.
    I have come across these practices on many occassions from some well know marketers.
    I have been wanting to cancel my GDI account for some time now but it cannot be done on site - you have to telephone them on a 706 number. I only have a portable and just cannot afford to telephone from France only to get long 'What do you want to do'? recorded messages.
    Cancelling should be a transparent action on every site. Lets hope these regulations are adopted quickly.
  • Sajio
    this is indeed breaking news. Thanks. it will be interesting to see how the IM world respond to this. I had my doubt about this approach. Fairplay to consumers and business owners.
  • mjglopez
    Now, that's totally awesome. Makes the world a better place and definitely a step forward for the online marketing industry.
  • stewkelly
    Hey Ryan, This is great news! The only shame is the Internet Marketing community needed the credit card community to shake out the scammers and frauds.

    Forced continuity is just that...forced upon somebody. No one wants the will of another forced upon them, it makes them feel they were taken advantange of and they resent it. It is far better to get the customer to ask to belong.

    I hope this policy shakes out all the shady operators that use trickery (like the grey, font size 9 buried in the product button) and questionable practices to inflict their vapid products on people.

    Merchants that provide true value have nothing to fear. In fact, this policy might actually improve membership site sales with the perception of increased trust.
  • Thanks for this info Ryan, I appreciate it.
    It is a nuisance, trying to find out how to cancel.
    It is not obvious what's happening every time & can stress out the uninformed.

    I'm pleased this little house keeping event has come about.

    The internet is a real & exciting field of commerce...
    you don't see off line businesses trying these "dodgy" tactics,
    neither should online biz!

    My opinion only.
  • About time!! Like most everyone else I hate forced contunity. I have been known to leave right in the middle of the process. As for the people who don't leave you with any way to cancel....I had better not use the language that I have for them.

    Interesting that all of your comments, and I read most of them, are opposed to the practices that are being discussed here. Imaging how much business that these people are driving away because people will never do business with them again.
  • jackist
    Wow, this is a real game changer for the CPA supplement industry, which I think is the bulk of the problem here. It will be nice to see them go, because it was either get beat or join them thing happening and compelling merchants to join in on this craziness if they wanted their offer in the CPA networks.

    Anyway. I am confused why this couldnt have been handled within the confines of the chargeback policy. If the offer was unclear then you are going to get alot of chargebacks in which case you get your merchant account closed. In order for visa/mc to change their policy it must have been an issue which means it was over 1% of sales, so close the account, problem solved. You cant rotate your way out of 1% chargeback with multiple accounts.

  • alstankewicz
    After more than a decade of owning a merchant processing sales office (just one of the income streams in my office), I can tell you one thing for sure about this issue.

    When you DISCLOSE everything up front, clearly, and ADVISE your customers CLEARLY, up front of what ever service or product you are trying to sell them, EVERYTHING always works out better for both of you in the end.

    The old saying of "things always END the exact same way that they START" is still as true as it was in the 1920's.

    All of that having been said, the comment above about this issue being more or less something that was bound to happen is something that everybody will have to take to heart.

    The merchant industry, in general, has been sort of de-evolving into a more and more nebulous practice for a long time, and with the Federal Government now mandating more strict and more onerous regulations on banking and banking issues, we will ALL have to toe the line and figure out ways to get the job done, while still being compliant with whatever issue is brought to the table for us.

    I expect that there will still be several good venues for transacting continuity programs into complete transactions, and merchant service providers to run the transactions, as VISA and MasterCard won't allow that transaction line to disappear altogether, simply because they make entirely TOO much money by providing that type of transaction.

    BUT ........ there WILL be more strict issues to comply with for the merchants, and many businesses will have to relearn how to "sell" some product or services and still be customer friendly enough and compliant with ever escalating regulations and restrictions.

    But we have seen this before ........ AND we have learned from it to still achieve what was needed to more than survive, most who did also tended to get better at making a profit. Overall, even if things get a bit dicey for a while, we can all cope with whatever the issue is that is handed to us.

    It will just takes a little "reinventing the wheel" so to speak!
  • Not sure that I really understand the cross selling upsellling section. I'm sure more details are coming. I think that this will help keep people honest in their sales tactics and those that don't want to do that will be eliminated which isn't necessarily bad for the rest of us. Thanks for the heads up.
  • I've never been a fan of forced continuity and the $1 trial. I alway read any shipping only offer for the forced continuity catch. I see any forced continuity as a scam and its most of the so called big gurus doing it. Just be honest.
  • JK
    Please excuse my temperament in this email, I am a professional but I saw this coming. The *%#^%$( dumb idiot greedy so called marketers out there have ruined so many honest businesses with BS practices. If it sounds like I'm mad. I am. I had a large 6 figure "PROFIT" business destroyed by this type of amateur marketer. They caused the federal government to move into my industry and literally closed it down. And they have destroyed every good industry out there with shi* practices. They are the Golden Goose Killers. If you think they will stop, you are just kidding yourself. The next great program will be infested by them and destroyed. If this even gets published, join with me in wishing all those dumb *&%( an infestation into their armpits and AHs of a thousand fleas from the nastiest camels on earth. Thanks for letting me get this off my chest after a number of years and untold dollars lost.
  • Thanks Ryan for the latest update. This information came very timely, as I was just planning on designing and launching a continuity program. I would be better off skipping a trial offer and go ahead with the subscription like Ryan’s magazine launch. Having said that, I very much agree with Visa and MC taking actions to crack down on unscrupulous merchants who scam innocent consumers.

    Taking the crackdown aside, I think the best business practice would be to offer a free trial for a certain period, and then contact the subscriber to offer him/her the option to continue. If no response is received, the credit card will not be charged further.

    However, this partially defeats the purpose of having a trial in the first place, and would very much decrease the conversion rate. It's often much easier for us to just let the subscription go on and on than cancelling it, simply because our brains hate change. Once you're hooked, the inertia is so strong that you'd want to be consistent with the decision you made (signing up in the first place).

    And then there’s this factor of laziness. We are so lazy to make the decision to continue or not that we’d just leave it as it is and postpone indefinitely. So, in my opinion, it’d be great to just offer a continuity program with a 30-day, or even 60-day refunds. If you want to be unique, go for 110% refund guarantee. In fact, I might do that myself…

    Lastly, many free trial offers I’ve seen so far are legitimate, since they prominently put up the “you will be charged if you don’t cancel” disclosure. I hate it sometimes, because I’d have to remember to cancel if I don’t like the offer. But I doubt that this profitable practice will die down any time soon.

    Thanks again for keeping us updated, Ryan!

  • Julie
    I think this sounds fair so far. Continuity income is great. getting money by fooling people is not. Making the agreements hard to understand is clearly business without integrity. As is making cancellation difficult. If one signs up for something in 3 clicks they should be able to cancel in 3 clicks. All merchant transactions should already be monitered and guarded against fraud and theft. And prechecking boxes is just rude.
  • michaellofton
    As noted from:

    Anthony Kane on Andy Jenkins blog (whom refered me to your blog, Ryan)...
    "Does this mean that now I can get the swim suit issue without taking an entire year of Sports Illustrated?" (et.al.)

    (My subjective input was/is)...

    Let’s face it, this does take place off-line and the on-line versions have their
    variables, indeed. I’d bet a good deal of us had taken up the $7.95 cd s&h offers,
    only to jam in 30 free days of continuity review, thereafter to reach the merchant
    account’s desk just in time to ‘cancel’ out of our commitment.

    If the front-side (landing page) copy fully exposes the forced continuity fee, hence
    the 30 days (or so)… then it appears to be totally legit and a great and fair marketing
    practice. It, however, must retain total copy exposure and the fullest respect of its
    cancellations upheld.

    The mention of ‘optional’ Continuity is cute. Kind-of-like web 2.-0?… anyway, it
    appears that ‘full exposure’ would justify an honorable mention for such
    digital nomenclature.

    And, what of Optional Continuity anyway?… Is this just another way to test the
    system with an ‘optional’ way to apply forced continuity, until Visa/MC (who
    made them the only bank cards anyway?) decides that these optional ways
    don’t meet their standards?

    mmmm,
    Hopefully, we can address the forced (the m/cards reference to such as ‘negative
    continuity’ seems a little wacky) continuity issue with some fairness in descriptive
    laws issued by the merchant hierarchy, with full understanding of its applications
    thereof.

    It would seem futile to cut-loose, or otherwise shut-down a perfectly good and
    if used with correctly, an acceptable and powerful marketing approach.

    And, thanks to Nola (posted over at Andy's blog) for such reference to
    Capital One’s thoughts. Where they note that they are 'not' complaining about
    such forced continuities. One would think that with reasonable offerings, along
    with openness within its copywriting, why not just let the marketplace decide it’s viability…

    If it is exposed properly, (ala) like ‘the new FTC testimonial laws’ – why not let the
    market dictate forced continuity’s ultimate fate?!

    best,
    -Michael Lofton
    michael@customercount.com

    AND… Thanks Ryan and Andy for the invite to comment with others!
    m.
  • Dave
    Ryan

    Thanks for sharing this urgent info. Its too bad it takes such drastic steps to rid the marketplace of the bad apples.

    Cheers!

    Dave

    PS....Andy Jenkins sent me over here...so send him some In-n-Out coupons....oh yea...send me some too!
  • DBW
    Thanks for the heads up Ryan!

    Personally, I think this is great news - I am so sick of 'free offers' that waste my time and try and trick me into continuity, or have 3 pages of upsell where I spend 5 minutes trying to find the 'no' option!

    Shame it took legislation to make people realise how damaging this is.
  • Vee
    I wanted to cancel from one program after the $1 but before the recurring charge of $97 because I did not get to try it out at all due to extenuating circumstances. I had to send in a support ticket after researching to find the cancellation process. I tried 2 days before due. My answer came after the $97 charge and they returned not the $97 but the $1. Now which one do you think I wanted most? And I did not have further access to the program. There have been times when I tried a program and hoped thaat I would be able to pay for it later but was not able to comfortably when the time came and suufered the loss hard. I suppose I should not decide like this but very often I would not be able to try much of anything and I'm still trying to find that program that will work for me.
  • Man this industry is really changing! I bought Russell Brunsons Micro-C program when he launched and i never thought that the word "free" was a good word simply because it's not free.. You have to pay S&H.
    But i do think that the business model and idea is a good one. Free trials are important to customers. Gives them a chance of trying before paying. I recently bought a software that was a piece of cr*p and because it had a free trial period i was able to cancel their continuity program. To all of you membership or micro membership marketers i think that the right way to do it is to look to what the magazines do. My girlfriend buys fashion magazines just because they offer a bag or sun glasses :) So get rid of you S&H offer that is only damaging your reputation and give them something of greater value that the membership itself upfront. In a project that i'm going to release in the next week i'm going to offer physical product that costs $129! I will actually pay from my pocket that amount of money to get shipped that physical product if my customers sign up to my micro-c membership and instead of putting videos online each week i'm just shipping one dvd each month! Of course because it is actually a dvd and possibly a real book i'm going to charge way more that i was going to charge! :)
  • Kyle
    So basically if I have a free trail for 7 days for example and after the 7 days the customer is billed for the monthly membership even if I tell them they will be billed after 7 days when they signup for the trail, will my merchant account be taken down?
  • Dax
    Thanks Ryan. This is timely.

    Kyle,

    I am thinking of doing a free trial for 1 month (then monthly membership) as well. Is this still an option?

    Also, this may hurt my strategy to use JV partnerships as they will send their buyers to another merchant.

    Any input would be appreciated.

  • Pete
    And about time too! If your an honest marketer you should not be 'tricking' people into paying for so called free stuff. How many times do you see get this free or for a dollar or post and packing, just so that you have their payment details so that a week, two weeks or a month later (when the customer has most likely forgot about it) you whack their card with acharge that they don't know about until they get their card statement. Don't try and tell me they knew what they were getting into because it wouls have been easy for the marketer to have emailed them a couple of days before to re iterate that they had actually signed up for a recurring payment plan when they gave their card details for the minor amount. It's not rocket science but marketers know that people will forget and when they complain the marketer will hold up the 'you ticked the box to join' yada yada. Unfortunately those marketers have only themselves for what is happening now. Like most good things there are a few who always have to go to far get too greedy and then whine when they get slapped. As far as I am concerned this can only be a good thing in internet marketing because when people cannot police themselves someone has to do it for them.
  • I think this is good. Although I love the awesome value you teach marketers to give online with their squeeze page offers and agree that participating in these offers does lead to my doing business down the road as a result of the genuine value that I've gotten from the content that comes into my email box, I don't enjoy finding that I've missed the deadline to decide to discontinue my auto enrollment and that I've been billed:(
  • Great info. Thanks for the heads up Ryan.

    The sad reality is actually a universal truth. A few bad apples ruin it for the rest. Just like the FTC ruling etc. it is the fraudsters in the acai, weight loss and other scam of the days guys who have relentlessly hammered and spammed soooo many people that the rest of us are left to clean up their mess.
  • I agree with most of the other comments... I too thought this was a bad practice from the start and actually have personal experience with getting money credited back to my bank account in this exact type of situation. It took me over 2 months to get back my money and cost me over $80.00 in extra bank fees in the process. Worst part was I sent back a so called free DVD that I actually paid the shipping for which I should have been able to keep. Also, I never actually received the second DVD that they billed my account $99.00 for and had a heck of a time convincing them I never got it. During this whole process my banking institution was adding another $10.00 in fees to my account every 5 days because this charge caused my account to be in default due to insufficient funds. At the point where they credited my account for the $99.00 dollars I had to threaten to contact the Better Business Bureau and our State Attorney General before they agreed to a refund. All told, I got the refund but it cost me over $80.00 in extra bank fees so what did I really gain? A lot of headaches! In conclusion I would just like to make it clear that I will never sign up for any of these type of services again and I will always read the fine print. Thank you so much for informing me of this and I will keep my eyes open for further developements regarding this situation.
  • I haven't fully jumped into the ecommerce aspect of my chosen area of interest as this is something I am working on the products for (yes there is a market though not a big one). But it seems that it is becoming easier to do it honestly or get caught each day it goes along. Good Old Fashion Salesmanship looks like the wave of the future. Show them the problem, Sell them the solution.
  • doug
    this is to funny. Ryan Lee got me on this and I now see why this has happened
    i canceled my free trial to his newsletter the day before the trial ended, however i was still
    billed $97 for 2 months in a row. i called and called and emailed and emailed his company to no avail...no answer, no call back, etc...

    finally, i filed a dispute with my credit card and finally was able to get my money back
    good for them to stop this shaddines. i expect better from Ryan
  • ryanlee
    Doug,

    I am sorry if this has happened to you. This is the first I am hearing of it.

    We take customer support very seriously. And we just implemented a new ticket system a few weeks ago so we can track every customer support request.

    Can you please email me directly at ryan@ryanlee.com with some of the dates of your original emails and the ticket support number. I will personally look into where we might have dropped the ball.

    I can assure you - I've been online for over 10 years, and would not be doing this if I billed people and didn't offer cancellations. Again, I am sorry for the headaches this might have caused you.

    Sincerely,
    Ryan

  • Kary
    This really is too funny, you're posting on Ryan Lee's Blog regarding not being able to cancel Ryan's free trial to Ryan's newsletter and being billed 2 months in a row, etc.

    Ryan, send Andy Jenkins lots of In & Out Coupons, he sent me to this blog and I'm having a riot. LOL If I keep laughing I'm going to break my body cast. ROFL It does make me wonder if people understand what their reading after some of the comments posted.

    Doug, you do know this is Ryan Lee's Blog right? LOL I thought I was outspoken, but now I feel like I'm a little pussy cat and you're a tiger. ROFL I won't say a word to Ryan if you don't. (Puts Gag On Mouth)
  • ronaldcagape
    Thanks for the heads up. I myself have been victimized by these schemes. I think it's really better to just have them straight up subscribe rather than use free-trials.
  • Catmandu
    Holy smokes, Batman. Now this is interesting. But, it is not as though we can say we didn't see it coming, especially with the FTC taking a more active role in IM. Thanks, Ryan. Best, Richard
  • Sue
    Its unfortunate that free trials are taking a hit, too. Still, a free members area is just as easy to set up as a free trial offer is. From a marketing standpoint, it'll be a bit more work on our parts, but honesty and transparency are both good business, and are both societal watchwords these days anyway.

    From a consumer angle, however, I have stumbled before and not canceled a trial that I really didn't participate in, and been charged. I accept those charges as my own negligence, not the fault of the marketer who offered the trial.

    On two occasions (at the same time), I did ask for a refund of the billed membership, as I had been in hospital and not even visited either site in the 14 days of the trial. In one of the two instances I got the refund. Though I do not use the service in question, I do continue to offer it to my visitors. In the other instance, where I was told I'd have access to the site for another 29 days, I did make note of it, and will not promote that site or its products and services.

    I would imagine that continuity marketers continually run into people who over-run the free trial and then request a refund on purpose - and can see where a company would do something like the above, but to me that is NOT over-delivering, nor is it good business.

    Sue
  • hamid
    in iran no visa and mastercard or ,,,,
  • Tejiri
    Thanks Ryan for the heads up. Really appreciate all your effort to keep us up to date with what is going on. In a way, I think this will be a good thing as the internet as the physical world should have firm standards. Customers should not feel tricked when they make a purchase as it really leaves a sour taste in their mouth which can lead to them being scared to sign up for continuity programs.

    The problem clearly is not that continuity programs are bad but it should be made CLEAR to the customers what they are signing up for.
  • jalilej
    For those offering products with real value this shouldn't be a problem. Just like the double opt-in, this will help us market to those who really want what we're selling, and it'll help improve the reputation of the internet industry. It will eventually reduce the number of spammers and scammers and subsequently increase the trust of consumers.
  • Uli Kunkel
    Thanks Ryan for the info. I think this is really great, If you want to have trust among pepole using internet to buy products on other sites than Amazon.com this is good. I think a lot of marketers are not thinking enough into the future they are just into the game for a quick fix and quick money. This sort of marketing models will scare potential future internet shoppers away. Im glad Mc and Visa puts down the feet without them you can´t do much of online business activity.
  • webinfusion
    Hi Ryan,

    This is very interesting. I have had one recent transaction (in 15 years of buying online) with a well-known Internet marketer whose continuity program wasn't clear. I was unable to get my money back, which has left a very bad taste in my mouth regarding this person. I'm in the process of setting up a new site and will take care to make sure every charge and potential charge is crystal clear. I would have even without this new info, because to do otherwise is unprofessional and, well, lame.

    Thanks for the heads up,
    Tracy
    PS Andy Jenkins sent me:-)
  • Rane
    They are just doing what all the retail stores are doing I don't think they are going to be able to call themselves a credit card company.For instance fashion bug changed their policy its like you have to have money actual money credit to your card before you can shop. If that the case then I might as well wait until get paid to go buy a coat and a pair of boots. All the consumer is doing is putting your pennies for a rainy day and being charged interest and service fees to do it. That's why I hate shopping and don't go unless I have, and I really don't have too.And this is the first time I actually got to play any of your works without being cut off in the first 25seconds.
  • “Negative Option” enrollment, in addition to the following practices: How is this defined meaning what is a "Negative Option" or is Forced Continuity called a negative option?
  • KiwiSteve
    Hey Ryan - thanks for this.
    We're gonna have to be careful, so thanks for the warning
    I guess half the support desks in the world won't be as busy now LOL
    Best regards from New Zealand
  • abundancymagnet
    Ryan, thanks for the update. Imagine its going to be the demise of some less than forthright marketers, as they count of the system making it difficult to stop their programs. The time for Transparency in all things has come.
    Thanks for being on the ball and sharing what you have learned.
  • KiwiSteve
    Wow! We'd all better watch what we're doing.
    Thanks Ryan
  • ajaybris
    Its about time that this sleezy underhanded deceptive or dishonest practice is being stopped. what has taken it so long? In a way the the Card companies are complicit in at as well.

    Many of the big marketers are guilty of doing / having done just that, especially since the financial crisis. I had to cancel cards or close accounts because it was impossible to unsubscribe. The motto is easy to subscribe ie free or oto, but take you thru the hoopes of a a Marines / Crack force obstacle course to unsubscribe, called forced continuity.
    Anyone using those practices has got no integrity and lacks ethics.
    Let 2010 be the year where ethics and honesty to the customer comes first again. Anyone still continuing these practices should be shut down. Hard words but the whole industry is out of control.

    There are already new schemes now going the next generation of deception smoke and mirror take the money and run marketing. I dont know how they can sleep.
    Cheers to some more ethics for 2010. and congrats to the FTC to put up the heat.
  • I know this can be seen as the end of an era and one more hoop marketers have to jump through, but I see this as an opportunity. I had the pleasure of experiencing the "pro" version of an online service the other day on a 72 hour free trial. When the trial was done, my access simply reverted to the free version and I lost access to their premium features. I sure missed them when they were gone and didn't feel that sweating bullets over making sure I cancelled in time to avoid a charge would have made me more productive or like it more. In fact, when I thought about it afterward, I realized that it was a pleasure to access the pro version, use the features and not feel as though I had a gun to my head to make a quick decision about whether I wanted to upgrade. No pressure, more quality time with the brand is how I thought of it.
  • mark
    The disinfectant of daylight is supreme.

    I recently had to threaten the guy you gave a car to. I said that unless he gave me a full refund of almost $300 accrued thru a forced (and more importantly "stealth") continuity programme, I would complain directly to Google. It was "stealth" because the "sign-up" was 150 words buried in a 6250 word sales page.

    They still hard-balled me. I won, eventually.

    Internet marketers who do this are trash.

    Anything that raises the standard in any industry is almost always a good thing. This is a good thing.

  • arthurking
    Wow! Thank you for the heads up Ryan! It will be interesting to see what answers other marketers will come up with to make legitimate offers. I have ordered cds and internet marketing programs that had the continuity attached to it, and the ones that I liked and learned a lot from I continued with, and the ones that I thought were useless I canceled. That being said, I don't think people should ever be tricked into signing up for one thing but getting another. Thanks for the heads up!
  • PLR_Blogger
    I wonder how this will affect Video Professor.
    Something tells me that Internet Marketers are not the only ones that will be affected by this crack-down.
  • Robert
    This is important information - thanks and please keep up posted.
  • Andre
    What about free trial CPA offers?
  • This is GREAT news that MC & Visa are stepping in to stop this practice. Normally I do NOT like being told what I can or can not do as an Entrepreneur - however, too many people implemented this forced continuity with crap programs. I believe in offering products of VALUE that people actually WANT, and choose to pay for.

    Too many people in this industry try to crate something super-fast by throwing together a product... yet they have great sales copy. People buy from them and are blindly sucked into a frustrating position - having to call and cancel.

    Maybe now we can all re-evaluate our business models, and become someone that delivers high valued products and services. We owe it to the marketplace to become BETTER, and hold ourselves to a higher standard.

    I promise that the Accelerator for Success continuity program will deliver just that - high value for Entrepreneurs.

    Thanks Ryan for this up-to-the-minute news.

    Bill
  • Ryan

    Thanks for the update on an interesting new topic, certainly appears to have massive implications for digital product owners and vendors.

    Its not a surprising development given some of the unscrupulous operators out there, and would seem that as long as you are honest and operate with integrity you shouldn't have any problems.

    Will watch this topic with interest.

    Tom
  • TheBrainTeacher
    Thanks Ryan.
  • pa321
    I am sure that honest merchant wont be damaged by this changes and customers will buy more coz more guaranteed.I have seen too many evercises wity last fashion of free offers who are not free or take for 1 now and pay 100 in 7 days.Fraude fraude fraude this is the right name for those tricks!!
    Paul
  • Joe
    The idea here is to do it the same way as say netfix imo ftc is looking to shut down flogs and the like not a wine of the month however google may not see it that way as they are taking aggressive action.
  • raghidahallal
    I believe that this is an inevitable consequence of bad practices undertaken by some, even by famous gurus. I endorse this measure as the current market lacks innovative methods of gaining decent income. Some of those Gurus have gone down the road of quick fixes over long term relationship with the customers. Is it sheer greed?.. I am not sure. As a person pursuing to become an internet marketer, I am astonished of those very well known internet marketers who have been adopting sneeky ways to force some form of continuity on their customers. I have been embroiled or maybe a victim of a number of such continuities, the best recent example is Eben Pagan's programme known as Get Ignition. I do not want to defame the person. He is a well qualified, vibrant and an excellent character with superb content but like others who are famous (I do not want to name them so as to prevent a flaming war) why is there such appalling tactics to force a particular programme on a person and disempowering the customers by not allowing her/him to have a straightforward method of discontinuing the programme? A book can be written about all these tactics.. Can you imagine a programme such as Get Ignition there is no clear link for the support? The support link had to be obtained from one of the programmes' seminars which to get it I had to wait until 4 am in the morning. I sought other routes (such as googling) and got various emails and websites for Get Ingition, Get Altitude. Emails were sent and responses of 'coming back to me' were received but no evidence of being unsubsribed. Alas, no use until this date. The consequences were that $97 was withdrawn from my bank account and now the second month subscription is about to become due but without a success to discontinue the programme. There are thousands of examples which I believe caused by improper setups and inflated growth.
  • teresaka
    Thank you, Ryan, for this info! Excellent and looking forward to seeing it shake out. I find it interesting that some think the finance folks are trying to help us; I personally think it's their way of trying to fight back against the large charge-offs and expenses incurred from people disputing charges. I can only imagine how much Visa and MC have to spend on this. Also, wonder if AmEx will be next?

    The bad apples in the continuity arena certainly make it more difficult for honest marketers, and in some ways, for the consumer. As Vonalda said, I enjoy trying a product before paying so much for it; and getting rid of the word "free" in offers that actually charge S&H is a good thing. Looking forward to seeing what's next!
  • lukeharlan
    Seems like it's not the end of of continuity at all, just a best practices guide enforced by the merchants to protect the consumer. As transparency is THE business model to aspire to in all communications from testimonials with recent FTC changes, letting your list know that you will be compensated for promoting affiliate products and now with the credit card providers.
    Now there's just an actual stick to go along with carrot to do what is right in the first place. However I smell the soon to be delivered ability to bill people's phone accounts to avoid all this though. :)
  • PLR_Blogger
    FANTASTIC --- shut down those slimeballs!

    That being said, marketers like Mike Filsame who clearly identified the charges, the dates of the charges and how to cancel the continuity, etc. I hope are not bothered.

    I quit getting trial periods because several services would hide the procedure to cancel so that even if you did what you thought was the process to cancel, they still charged the card and would not refund the money. They just drag you out till the process goes beyond the period the CC will handle it.

    I did not think it was fair that the CCs once agreed that any challenge over the internet was handled in the card holder's favor, but at the same time, the card holders need a way to easily stop some of these transactions.

  • Pete
    Yeah! That nice Mr Filsaime also has in his terms and conditions that you agree to a $250 charge if you try to do a charge back on his stuff!!!!
  • vonalda
    Here's a little more clarity! (From membershiptsiteowner.com). I don't think there's a need for legit ethical business owners to panic now if they are offering trial offers to their membership sites!!

    <<upon accounts="" also="" and="" clients.<br="" contact="" he="" hearing="" hundreds="" i="" is="" jud="" made="" membergate="" my="" news,="" of="" powerpay.="" provider="" provides="" smith="" the="" to="" with="">
    He confirmed that Mastercard has requested some accounts be frozen.

    Jud is currently recommending the following:

    Trial offers in general ($1 with CLEARLY SPELLED OUT TERMS don't appear to be the issue). It appears that MC is getting a lot of consumer complaints when they signed up for something they thought was totally free only to be billed afterwards.

    # Make the "fine print" not so fine. Jud is recommending at least 12 point font for your terms explaining that they will be billed again. Don't make it appear to Mastercard that you are trying to hide that fact.

    IMPORTANT NOTE: This does not mean all recurring income (ie the membership site model in general) is disallowed.

    It is a crack down on practices which Mastercard has deemed to be misleading. In particular free offers which were unclear that they would be billed in the future as well as "Free (just pay shipping)" type offers.


    Another merchant provider is also expressing concern over these issues.

    # Avoid having an upsell offer which is tied to ANOTHER vendor. Upsells on your own site are okay but don't send them to a third party to be billed on their end.

    # Avoid multiple merchant accounts. Mastercard can interpret this as an attempt to manipulate chargeback rates and can close you down completely.

    # "Free, just pay shipping" or offers that hide the nature of recurring payments are to be avoided as well.


    This is a still developing issue.</upon>
  • avulso63
    My account was just shut down an hour ago by my payment processor. $1 trail for an ebook and then one payment of $36 in 21 days. No upsells...completely legit. Cancellations were processed immediately. Never had complaints...terms were clear as day.

    The processor told me that my back end payments would not be processed as well! No advanced notice.

    Time to talk to a lawyer.
  • vonalda
    Oops. Sorry for the typo. That quote was from : http://www.membershipsiteowner.com
  • I took out a free 30 day trial for Amazon Prime this week!
    Will they get busted?
  • CPAPIMP
    no because they don't bill your for 30 days, tell you that you can discontinue at any time before and after checkout, whereas most re-bills did not and some would charge you within a week of your order.

    It's all process, and too many did it wrong and took advantage of a lax market that has now caught up to them.
  • Matthew_Jones
    The latest trend (which has been used by some very well known marketers) is to do a sales video instead of sales copy. 25 minutes into the sales video they state they will bill you $XXX per month and nothing is noted on the sales form itself. Problem with this is that many people dont get that far into the video - they click that big Orange 'Add to Cart' button just a few minutes into the video and dont watch all of the video.
  • Kary
    I agree, who has the time to waste or wants to watch a long video's sales pitch? I click the big Orange "Add To Cart" button and then when they want my credit card number I close the window. If they accept PayPal as an option I'll pay a fee, but I immediately log on to my PayPal account check to see if there's any other payments involved and cancel them prior to being charged. This may sound unethical, but hey if they want to hide that there's monthly fees by creating a long video, which I'm pretty sure not many people watch, I don't view it as being unethical I'm just playing the same game they are only I'm better at it. LOL If they put on the sales form there's a monthly fee, I don't sign up unless I'm really interested in the program and it's easy to cancel if I'm not satisfied.

    If I watched every sales video I received, I'd never get any work done or have an opportunity to sleep.
  • bad_credit
    It’s my belief that his hammer was mostly caused by call center TRIPLE READ campaigns using card on file data and up selling travel, medical and forced continuity memberships. Call center agents will up sell 2, 3 or sometimes 4 different memberships programs during 1 call with a customer. When the customer thinks that he is getting a free gas card or free shopping spree for agreeing to the call center agents questions on a recorded call. When the customer finally gets his bank or credit card statement he will see that 3 or 4 different companies names billed his credit card at different times for stuff he really wasn’t aware of. The effect of this is a high amount of chargeback’s that these call centers will spread out over multiple merchant accounts to try to stay below 1%. If you have been in the call center game or have owned a call center, you know what I'm talking about. I have had my hands in this industry for many years and have designed many call center campaigns and knew that this game would end soon for the triple read campaigns.
  • Kary
    I don't believe you'd feel that way if it was your credit card being hit over and over and over again from a so called Internet Guru via EMAIL not a call center that is using a PHONE to call you. If you're stupid enough to give out your credit card number on the PHONE you deserve it. *Rolls Eyes*
  • Isobel
    And you think it's LESS stupid to put your credit card number in an EMAIL do you?

    I think you also completely misunderstood bad_credit's comment - but don't let that stop you being sarcastic about it. After all, where would we all be without someone like you to tell us where we're going wrong? Oh I forgot - you got stung yourself, didn't you - for giving your credit card number to a so-called Internet Guru by EMAIL! How dumb is THAT? *Rolls Eyes*
  • Kary
    OMG, HOW STUPID ARE YOU??? *Muffles Laughter* I never said I gave out my credit card number via email - I didn't. What I DID say was I received the "FREE OFFER" via EMAIL! (Hmm, I Better Write Out Exactly What Happened So Isobel Can Understand! *Nods Head*) Then when I clicked the LINK in the EMAIL I was REDIRECTED to their LANDING PAGE and then I was REDIRECTED to a SECURE SITE to ENTER my CREDIT CARD NUMBER. *Rolls Eyes* YOU totally misunderstood what I was saying!!! *Shakes Head*

    Don't know how long you've been doing business on-line, but I personally have never received an email requesting my credit card number via email from any Internet Marketer. There's always a LINK in the EMAIL to click on that REDIRECTS you to their LANDING PAGE and then if you SIGN UP on their LANDING PAGE you're REDIRECTED to a SECURE SITE to enter YOUR CREDIT CARD DETAILS. Oh and No, I'm not stupid enough to send my credit card number to anyone via email or via phone. *Smiles* YOU DO KNOW WHAT A SECURE SITE IS DON'T YOU OR WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO EXPLAIN THAT TO YOU AS WELL??? *Looks At Isobel*

    Okay, to clarify what I said...I was referring to receiving the Free offer via email NOT via Phone, thus there was no call center involved. Maybe YOU should go back and re-read what Bad_Credit said, he was speaking about call centers and how their agents will up sell on the PHONE NOT EMAIL!!!

    Bad_Credit Stated: "Call center agents will up sell 2, 3 or sometimes 4 different memberships programs during 1 call with a customer." DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CALL CENTER AND AN EMAIL??? Here let me help - Call Centers contact you by PHONE, Internet contact is by EMAIL.

    BTW, because everything was done in writing, I was able to get my money refunded, which I wouldn't have been able to do if I was dealing with a call center. I wouldn't have had the documentation required to back up my claim, but since it was done via email I had all the documentation necessary to have my money refunded. *Big Smile*

    As to being sarcastic, aren't you doing exactly what you're accusing me of? (Nothing Like The Pot Calling The Kettle Black! *Stifles Laugh*) Or is your ego so overinflated you believe you can use sarcasm, but others can't? *Shrugs Shoulders* No worries, I don't take remarks made on the Internet seriously, especially when the only purpose of the post is to insult someone! *Eyes Rolled Back In Sockets* Bad_Credit didn't take offense at my comment, why are you? *Bewildered Expression On Face* Oh never mind, I know it's because YOU didn't understand and wanted to put your own spin on what I said so YOU could demonstrate your ability to be sarcastic. *Cracks Up Laughing* So ask yourself the same question you asked me "Where would we all be without someone like YOU to tell us where we're going wrong?"

    Personally, I don't believe I misunderstood Bad_Credit's comment in the least. My comment "If you're stupid enough to give out your credit card number on the PHONE you deserve it." wasn't directed at Bad_Credit, but to anyone who gives their credit card number over the phone.

    Now, that I've explained to you that I didn't give out my credit card number via email or phone, I trust you can recognize that I'm not that dumb or stupid. (But, You Probably Won't, From Reading Your Post, Your Too Egotistical To Admit You Were Wrong Or Give Anyone Credit For Being Intelligent, Which I Am! *Gigantic Smile*) You'd much rather simply made a judgment call based on your interpretation of what is said - right or wrong! *Sigh*

    But hey, if it makes you feel better about yourself, I'm glad I could help raise your self esteem. Have fun with this one if you need to up your self esteem even more, I don't mind, I'm always willing to lend a helping hand to those less fortunate then I am. *Smiles At Isobel*
  • vonalda
    Hey, Ryan, thank you for this update. Very interesting! Could you please do a video explaining to us in plain English what this means, exactly? In other words, can we make trial offers as long as we are Clear and Obvious, or are they out now, no matter what? For example, does this mean Russell Brunson's micro-continuity model is unacceptable?

    I guess I never considered trial offers and $1 offers, etc. as being a bad business practice, as long as you were clear and upfront about it, and made sure it was EASY to cancel.
    As a consumer, I appreciated being able to check out an offer/product first before making a commitment, and I also see nothing wrong with S/H offers - especially when I'm getting something I want in a fair exchange for my contact information. Just don't call them "free" when they aren't.

    Any clarity you can give on this would be great. Thanks!
  • Pete
    The problem is that people think they are getting something for free or low cost. But they are really being signed up for a continuity program. Being able to cancel easy is one thing. But if it is not made clear (and often it is intentionally not made clear) would you know or remember when the next payment would be taken out, do you check your account each week or couple of days? Chances are you do it once a month or less. The $1 and pay for shipping only, effectively exchanges your payment details (and email address) for whatever was being offred for free. The marketer can then charge your card later without your specific knowledge. It would be different if the marketer had to get permission to charge your card each time, or at the very least inform you that they were due to make a charge with enough time for you to cancel should you wish. It wouldn't suprise me if these continuity plans only had 3 or 4 months worth of 'goods' because people would be cancelling once they realised the were being charged. Even Ryan on his napkin model suggests that there is a significant drop out at arond 3 to 4 months, and you need to keep feeding people in to keep the revenue up.

    I've fell for this myself, trouble is I sometimes have trouble remembering yesterday let alone a week or a month ago and I'm sure I'm not alone!
  • Gareth Thomas
    I totally understand why some people are mad about continuity payments for things but what is going to happen to payments to belong to a membership site? Or a split payment facility over, say, 6 months, for high ticket items? Some people won't be able to afford a large cost in one hit.
  • Kary
    If they know what their getting into then it won't be a problem, their aware before hand that their going to be charged until they've made complete payment or cancel their membership. It's the not knowing and getting charged after the fact that's the problem.
  • Bonnie
    Thank you Ryan
    I really apreceiate this "head up"
    Bonnie
  • Greg Writer
    Good job Ryan! Appreciate the heads up!
  • davidertl
    I don't have a problem with this. Be fully transparent, as Ryan preaches, and you will be okay. Charge people for the value they are receiving and be open and up front about it. I don't like being tricked into buying something I didn't intend to. However, this will require more hoops to go through and be mindful of as a merchant. Thanks Ryan for keeping us up to date.
  • This is huge. I guess it's going to make marketers come up with more ingenious ways to market to people now.

    With Forced Continuity an issue, it's going to have a serious knock on affect to some marketers out there who rely on Forced Continuity as their main business model.

    Interesting times ahead....

    Thanks Ryan, much appreciated.

    David
    --
  • Ryan,

    While many times I think laws and government policies tend to throw out the baby with the bathwater, this will bring much needed reform to an industry that has really been out of control with deceitful and deceptive marketing practices.

    While many of us will have to innovate new and creative ways to sell memberships and and use the power of low risk / no risk incentives, this will certainly help those of us who are legitimate entrperenuers who offer good quality products that our customers will want to buy over and over again (without being tricked into it).

    - Brian
  • vonalda
    Hi Brian,

    I agree. As marketers we know how important it is to take away the risk for the consumer. One way of doing that is to offer a free trial, plain and simple. As long as you make the terms clear and make it dead simple to cancel, I don't see how that is a problem, or in any way unethical. Of course, there's another way, as you've mentioned Brian, and that is offering a rock-solid guarantee. And for those of you that haven't yet read or heard about this - a LIFETIME guarantee has been proven to boost conversions and actually REDUCE (yes, reduce) returns - particularly for physical products. If you have a great product, do not be afraid to offer a great guarantee! And make it easy for someone to return it. Sure, you will get a few bad apples that take advantage of you, but they were just going to be pains-in-the-a,,,, anyway.

    Oh, and although this is a bit off the topic at hand, it's on my mind. Puleeze don't hide your price. I don't care if this is a high-end mastermind or a low-end whatever, just be up front about the cost for pity sake! Don't make people jump through hoops and fill out forms and/or read 5 pages of sales copy or watch a 45 minutes sales video to find out what your monthly cost is. I'm speaking as a consumer here -and I buy a lot of stuff - so I may not be an IM guru, but I sure am an expert buyer/customer and I know what works from that perspective. :-)
  • Robert
    Hi Vonalda,

    Merchant account providers frown on lifetime guarantees because they don't want the chargeback risk. They usually cap it at a 90-day guarantee.

    So you might want to be careful about using lifetime guarantees... or at least check with your merchant account provider first.
  • DON
    ITS ABOUT FRIGGIN TIME THIS HORRIBLE PRACTICE WAS STOPPED. I CAN'T BELIEVE THE BANKS ACTUALLY DID SOMETHING FOR US, WOW, DID I DIE AND GO TO HEAVEN.
  • Pete
    I don't think the Banks did it for 'us' they did it because all the charge backs were costing them money!
  • Kary
    OMG, can't you at least give them the benefit of the doubt? What they are doing is going to save a lot of people a lot of money. Even if they are doing it to for themselves their helping us out as well, be thankful we all benefit from their taking action.
  • At least this time businesses cleaned up their act before he government felt the need to set more guidelines.

    It will be interesting to see the next 'trick' that unscrupulous marketers invent.
  • Ryan,

    Thanks for bringing us this information as fast as you could. This is once again an example of the bad apples spoiling the bunch!

    Please keep us informed if you hear anymore. Also thanks for offering your magazine for such a wonderfully surprising price! :)
  • DC WIZZARD
    It's about bloody time! I'm sick of getting scammed by dirty tricks in microscopic print that sucks money people do not have right out from under their noses. All such practise should be banned period. The only way a subscription should be allowed is by signing a paper contract with all parties concerned. The banks have been in cahoots with the merchants all along but now people are more vigillant and are on to them and the bank credit card scams are backfiring on them! Good riddance to all blood suckers!
  • Ha ha ha. The real problem with these attemps to ban is that they don't really stop the scammers! They make life a pain in the butt for the honest folks and cause the scammers to simply get more creative. I'll give it 4 months after the enforce before the 'next thing' shows up. Five years later the regulators will throw another bandage on it starting it all over again. But whatelse can the merchant banks do? They have to do something to reduce complaints!
  • DC WIZZARD
    Ok, but the question is - How honest is it for anyone to use the word "FREE" when they are fully aware that most people don't read the small print that allows continued forced subscriptions. They also know that even those who do read the fine print, will forget to cancel by the set date and so get screwed for at least one payment if not more before the consumer spots it and puts a stop to it.

    If a product is worth having at all - offer a real Free trial (even paying just postage is fine), but it has to be up to the consumer to come back and order more or set up a subscription!

    It's long overdue for legislation to insist on "Truthful Advertizing" with severe penalties for misleading advertizers! Just one example would be for all service providers to have to quote all inclusive prices so that price comparisons are on the same footing. Not like it is at the moment - "Only $19.99" for an oil change which ends up $40.00 because they did not tell the customer about the extras for "shop supplies, old oil disposal and taxes" etc etc! Tell the consumer what it will cost and leave them happy in the knowledge that that is exactly the amount that they will really pay out of their pockets.

    Lets have an end to deliberate decption and and bogus advertizing! "Free", will mean free or you don't use the word!
  • Kary
    It's so nice to see so much positivity in your comment - NOT! How do you know if it's going to stop the scammers or not? Their at least taking action in an attempt to prevent people from being ripped off. If your honest how is this going to be a pain in the butt for you? It's simple don't offer a free trial, if people are interested in your product they'll be willing to pay for it. If not they won't - problem solved.
  • Ryan thanks for keeping us on top of this important change. I really appreciate your work!
  • I guess I'm gonna have to start following your blog because I'm really not familiar with any of these terms. I plan on adding some of these options in the future and I want to make sure it's right.

    So you got my RSS...
  • how about $1 offers? like at strength coach from the question above?
  • bobblick
    Personally I am happy about that. I stopped doing business with anyone offering such as it became a hassle to cancel. I always thought it was an unfair way to do business and, if the product was that good once you got the first material, you would sign on.
  • Isn't StrengthCoach.com based on a $1 14 day trial then monthly billing? Will this business practice not be allowed?
  • I'm delighted to see this come about. Why should anyone be forced into doing something that they don't want to do? Can you imagine from the merchant account point of view how much extra work it makes for them to handle all the complaints from the consumers who didn't know that they were being forced into something that they would have to opt out for.

    Transparency is nothing new but when we run smack in to the middle of it we act like we've just heard of it for the first time. Believe me if the products are worth anything people will seek you out wanting more. I'm frankly tired of the upsells and the forced continuity.

    It's simple, find out what people want and how they want it and give it to them. Nothing more and nothing less. We already have enough junk sitting on our shelves as it is.
  • benpatwa
    Thanks for this ryan,
    Do you know how to create those "I Agree" options and is that done in the shopping cart or is that in the membersite itself?

    Thanks
  • danieliversen
    So if you are running a platform that does load balancing for multiple merchant accounts... does that mean you will now be shut down????
  • Well, that'll definitely be a game changer for most direct marketing folks. Sounds like they better get on it fast before they lose their accounts. As someone who has done continuity programs for 4+ years by using a nominal charge up front, I avoided FREE trials due to the fact that PayPal even said themselves that "you'll have a much better chance to fight a dispute with a non-FREE trial." So I am assuming that folks who charge a nominal fee up front for a trial and the rebill and are as transparent as possible are in the clear. What's your take on it Ryan? Nonetheless, I really appreciate the heads up on this since I use Visa/Master on sites with 1-Click ordering, etc.
  • diana135
    Well Ryan, you were absolutely right when you talked about this last month! In my opinion, it is good to see the financial community banding together with the FTC to encourage (and enforce) ethical marketing practices. You and those of us who follow your ethical teachings can only benefit from this.

    Thanks for always keeping us informed and ahead of the curve.
  • Hooray, Hooray. It is about time that the Greed and
    Dishonesty be stopped.
    Most are afraid to sell it like it is.
    Maybe the ego and lack of TRUE business Mentality is the problem.
    Other good news IRS now has past 4 years of E-bay transaction history.
    Hope all maintain up to date Income and expense records.
    Just had a webinar on the System
    http://youcanbuild.it/you-can-build-it/building-your-web-business-and-the-irs

  • Helen
    Well I don't quite understand it all but it sure sounds "illegal" to me - WOW and here I thought we lived in the USA where freedom is there not somewhere where they are watching you breathe. I know I used to get a "free" site for doing crafts etc. and now to get it I have to pay and that was not from the company but elsewhere and could be ones mentioned. I tried getting them to change but that never happened so now if I want the information I have to pay - and I can go to the library for same info but free but doing it on comp. is easier and if forgot a part of instructions I just have to check it again - also cannot always get out, Well I will now shut my mouth. Hope they change all this I still say it's "anti USA". They have "freedom of print?"

    Helen
  • Kary
    Perhaps prior to posting you should understand what your responding too. This isn't just about the USA (You Do Know Other Counties Have MasterCard & VISA Cards Available To Them As Well, Don't YOU??) and there's nothing "ILLEGAL" with what their doing! In fact, their making these changes to help keep people honest and reduce Internet fraud! (Rolls Eyes at Helen) FYI, the world does NOT consist of only the USA - there are numerous other countries to take into consideration, that's why it's named the "World" NOT the "USA"!

    As to the rest of your comments, their so off topic I'm not even going to dignify them by posting my thoughts. I will say I'm sorry that you didn't shut your mouth before posting such an asinine comment. (Shakes Head)
  • It makes it easier for me as I never thought the free trial or $1 trial was a good idea anyway. Did nothing but bring negative energy to me and my company. I offer great front doors now, but you either come on direct as a monthly member, paying in full each month--or you don't. Response is lower, but the trade off is obvious--especially now.

    Question is, how do we continue to raise the incoming stream with attractive continuity offers without compromising our companies and back-end. I was only offering annual memberships for the past 2 years for http://cyclo-club.com Now, I have moved to monthly on the front end. Not working as well.

    Other ideas from other membership site owners? Love to hear them...

    Graeme Street
  • Chris
    So what do you find wrong with offering a discount? That's what a $1 trial is.
  • lisabyrne
    Graeme, just checked out your site and it is put together quite nicely. Seems like great intelligent content and a pleasure to peruse...
  • Thanks for the update. Even if it doesn't help get you out of a continuity program, maybe the consumer will think twice about getting in. I live on both sides of that fence...
  • Me
    I don't understand why this is such a huge deal. If people WANT to be in your program, let them. If not, let them go. Why get mad because VISA and MC aren't going to allow some continuity program owners to sneak you in by hoping you don't notice it's a recurring monthly charge?? It only unscrupulous people that this will have an effect on. Anyone doing business above board can easily follow the restrictions that they want. No biggie.
  • Kary
    Most of the time people don't know their getting into a continuity program and once you're in it's not that easy to get out. They use every trick in the book to keep you in, it took me over 3 months to get out and I had to have a lawyer threaten to file fraud charges against them to do it.

    So yes, it is a big deal when you're dealing with slim and if you've been doing business on the Internet long enough you'd know there's more scams then legitimate IMer's.

    BTW, who's getting mad at VISA & MasterCard the majority of comments applaud them for taking action.
  • Thanks for the heads up Ryan. Good info.

    ~Dave
  • Thanks Ryan... I just got a copy of a similar letter from my merchant account provider, saying the same thing... Got mine yesterday. This is going to change a lot of things and require quick action to be sure to stay in compliance. Be careful everyone!
  • L***chtree was the one that upset me. Glad this is happening--keep people honest. Integrity wins the game always. Some are hoping for a mass sign-up for free bonus and get a couple months out of everyone before they catch on and cancel as many don't pay attention to their statements. You do the math--2-3,000 people at 39.00 a month for 2-3 months. I'm all for it. If you have a good product people will pay for it.
  • eric
    where can we get first hand updates on this. This is HUGE for any continuity product owner.
  • mikesnader
    Wow. Talk about a game changer. It is more important than ever to be completely transparent with your customers. Keep me updated Ryan.
  • It was inevitable, in my opinion. While there are plenty of honest merchants out there, there are also a lot of folks just out to make a buck without regard to the customers/consumers well-being. Yeah, there are a lot of customers out to get things for free...however, I'm a firm believer in honesty and integrity, and I hope the trend will harken back to the days where commerce meant a fair,equitable & satisfying transaction for both parties.
  • Sid
    Ya, I agree with you, and hats off to Ryan for his informing us asap..rare rare! and an indication of the quality of his teaching.
  • drbryanpwalsh
    Thanks, Ryan. It's nice to be able to count on you for the most updated and current information that affects us all.
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